First Day Teaching - 18 November 1990

REASONING

Do you have such a word as reason in your vocabulary? What do you think reason means? It is the faculty of your mind by which you think, like your hand is a faculty of your body.

Is reason good or bad?

In Dan 4:36 Nebuchadnezzar came back to reasoning. It returned to him. Before he was like an animal and now the faculty of his mind by which he could think like a human being returned to him. Man has to have reasoning. Isa 1:16-20 'Come now let us reason rightly together.' It says 'now' because perhaps man did not reason rightly before this (vs. preceding 1:18), but now he could - with God. Mark 11:31 speaks about a reasoning. In Mark 2:6 they were reasoning in their hearts. In verse 8 they reasoned within themselves. Our Master perceived in His own spirit that they reasoned within themselves and so asked them why they did it.

Is reasoning good or is it evil?

Reasoning is inadequate to interpret the things of God. We cannot judge the word of God by our own reasoning. Our reasoning may seem right, but the end is death. The word of God comes to us and it may not seem right to us so we reason it away thinking that it does not really mean what it says. Reasoning can be a satanic principle. Satan reasoned. He thought he could be greater than the Most High. And the first sin of man is that Satan made Eve reason. She reasoned that the fruit was good for food, so why would her Father not want her to have it … reasoning.

Reasoning is earthly wisdom. Our parents taught us to reason wrong. We must teach our children to reason right. We must train our children to reason properly. Hence, actually our reason can be properly oriented. The gospel is not earthly wisdom. (1 Cor 1:18) The message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but we have learned not to reason away the gospel and the commandments because it is the power of God to us who are being saved. But to those who are perishing, it is foolishness; they wonder how a man dying on a cross could have anything to do with them. (v. 19-22) The Jews reason that they need a sign and the Greeks seek after reasoning, but we preach Messiah crucified. [Which is a greater miracle, the physical birth of a baby or the spiritual birth of a human being into Messiah, to a new life in Messiah where a tremendous change takes place in a person? (V.25-30)] But the foolishness of God is wiser than men. God chose the foolish things of this world to shame the wise. There were not many mighty or noble among us. [But he chose Bahirah. She might think she was noble but she was probably foolish and probably thinks she's worthless, but that is who He chose, the weak, the despised things that the world casts aside, so that no man should boast before Him.] For it was not Paul's own flesh, but his spirit that pursuaded the Corinthians. (1 Cor 2:1-4) The whole second chapter of 1 Corinthians is about reasoning, what it is and what it is not.

Reasoning is the use of reason; drawing conclusions through the use of reason. Make sure that you draw the right conclusions with your reason when it comes to the word of God. If we reason with and therefore judge the word of God, we cannot be saved. We must accept the word of God as authority that goes against our own reasoning. But if you consider, "Well, as it seems to me…", that is reasoning. It is a way that may seem right to a man but the end is destruction. Christianity may seem right to people by their own reason, but its end is destruction.

Authority in the family. Eph 5:22-25 What if we never come around to doing this, reasoning it away that he really did not mean that we have to actually do this? Eph 6:1-3 What if your child reasoned this away saying, "Oh, I'll live long anyway." ? Col 3:18,20,22 Even for the servants back then, if they did not obey their masters, there was no possibility that they could escapt judgment. We have to line our lives up with the word of God or be destroyed. There is no possibility of rebellion without judgment. Reasoning is rebellion in its highest form. Satan rebelled by reasoining; it was the first form of rebellion. Then man was created to do away with the rebellion of Satan, to lock him up in the abyss for 1000 years, but this will not happen until God has a people who obey Him. The purpose of our obedience is to do away with Satan's rebellion, but as long as we are in rebellion, we cannot do God's will. Our work is God's will but if we are in rebellion, we are not doing his will no matter how much we are working. The consequence of resisting authority is death, just like with Satan, just like with Adam and Eve, just like our children and everyone who ever lived. All the way through the bible, it is all about either obedience or rebellion, life or death; man has no choice but that choice: life or death, obedience or rebellion. Matt 12:30

God has set the husband as the head, the delegated authority and the wife as the representative of the edah. It would be difficult for a wife to be submissive to her husband if she did not see the delegated authority in him. But there is no possibility for a woman who resists the authority of her husband to escape death because God has set order and authority in the edah. We cannot judge the word; it judges us. The woman who resists, opposes, or speaks against authority is resisting, opposing, or speaking against God Himself. It is not possible to have a good conscience apart for obedience. The woman represents the edah - how the edah obeys Messiah, and the husband represents Messiah - how Messiah loves the edah.

Rom 13:1-5 All authority is of God. The real issue is God's authority vested in the husband. Titus 2:4,5 instructs older women to admonish wives to love their husbands and children. (1Pet 3:1) Do not be afraid of any terror in submitting to your husbands for God has set up authority in the family. You can see in Col 3:20 that even children must see God's authority. If you can see God's authority you can be saved. If you cannot see it you cannot be saved. To not see His authority is to be guilty of judgment; judgment must follow. This is required of children since the commandment to see God's authority in their parents is addressed to children. Therefore if you cannot see that, you are going to be disobedient and if you are disobedient to your parents you are going to be disobedient to God too because your parents are representatives of God's authority, representing God Himself. Unless children are brought u in a way that they are enabled to see this very essential spiritual principle that cannot be violated, they will die. If a father's heart is not turned toward his child, the child will not be able to recognize this essential principle. This principle of obedience must be fully established in the mind of the child. If a parent is obedient to Deut 6:7, he will be putting this into his children all day long. This principle of obedience determines life or death. It is the theme of the entire bible, old and new.

It is possible for children to be raised to reason, to see if what they are told fits in with their thinking. They can be raised up to reason or they can be raised up to obey. (Gen 18:19) One way is death and one way is life. Prov 13:1-3; 18:21; 21:23; James 3:6 Matt 12:33-37

A child's rebellion against authority is manifested (as ours also is) in words, thoughts or reasons. Rebellion against authority or against the word of God comes out of his mouth. If he does not know authority, he will speak slanderous words which come out of his reason. This child who has learned to reasons has been raised up by an overprotective defensive parent. He has been excessively shielded by an anxious insecure mother. We know this because we have seen it happen through the death of Mary. It is an overprotecting, sheltering, defensive 'momism' of excessive adoration and oversentimentalism. Some mothers do this. It is like an oedipus complex where children esp males between the ages of 3 and 6 are overmothered, overprotected, overdefended. They see their parents defending them all the time and they become arrogant and rebellious to authority because a spirit goes into them at that age and then in their adolescence their repressed feelings come out and they have hostile impulses, malbehaviors. It is the result of clinging, sheltering, overprotective mothers who deny the child emotional freedom. They set up a neurosis in the child. Luke's repressed feelings came out against authority later on. He started leading a rebellion in the edah. His mother was talked to over and over and over again about her defensiveness, overprotection, momism.

The child raised up by an overprotective parent who put reason into him instead of obedience is always judging whether his discipline during training, etc. was right or wrong. Instead of the recognition of authority, the child takes on the attitude of his parent. The parent does not have the eyes of his reason put out so the child grows up to have his arguments and reasons. But a child brought up by parents who have put out their eyes of reason, he would be able to be an example of being above this ungodly reason, of living by faith, not by sight. If we live by sight, we see only what we reason. But we live by faith, not by reason.

All servants of God must be delivered from a life of reason. Reason is the first thought of rebellion in word or thought. There can be no control of rebellion unless reason is dealt with. Many people are enslaved by a spirit of reason. They will only come when they are called and go where they are sent when it seems right to them. They always want to know a reason. If they are under this bondage of reasoning, sooner or later slanderous words will come out of their mouth against authority and there will be no possibility of escape from death. But in order for Satan to be locked up in a chain and thrown into the abyss for 1000 years (Rev 20:1,2), and for there to be 1000 years of peace when good authority is on the earth, with no bombs, no war, no slander, no hatred, no bitterness, there must be a people who utter no slanderous words against authority.

We learned reasoning from childhood through adulthood. In schools they taught us to question authority. If we did not have parents who guarded us from this, it went into us. We need to guard our children from reasoning.

To cease from reason asks for the very life of our flesh. Our flesh is tied to Satan. Satan is the father of reason. So if we cut our flesh off, reason is cut off.

There can be two classes of believers. Those who live by reason and those who live by authority. Where do you live?

When God commands us, if we stop to consider the matter to see if there is sufficient reason for us to do it, then we are still living according to the flesh. If the elders say 'you need to move to…" and you say, "What is the reason for that? I'm doing good here," etc., no matter how good you may do in the flesh, you cannot go past that rebellion. If you cannot judge it, your sins will pile up as high as heaven and you will receive a spirit that says you are doing alright. If all of His commands must pass through our reasoning, we are operating under a satanic principle, setting ourself up on an equal plane to God. Christianity says that Luke 14:33 only means you have to be willing to give up everything, but that is reasoning, a satanic principle. It goes against the word of God and the result is death. The broad road is full of reasons. On the narrow road is obedience only. (Matt 7:13) You cannot reason with God. The pot cannot say to the potter, "What are you doing? Why did you make me this way? What did you shape me this way for?" All who know God and know authority will obey his word, will obey Him, will obey His delegated authority without argument. Acts 3:23 - If we do not obey every word he speaks to us we will be cut off. Reason would say that surely we will not be cut off. But how do you squirm out of Acts 3:23? You cannot squirm out of the grave; just like you cannot claw your way out of Adam's casket.

We are getting ready for the race to begin. He cannot begin it with a bunch of rebellious people who resist authority, but only with a people who love him and obey him, whom he will reveal Himself to. He will disclose Himself to their spirit. (Jn 14:21) He will be so close to them, they will know Him. Phil 3:10

Corrupt. If we corrupt the word of God, we mix it with something else. To corrupt - you mix pure with impure. You cannot mix food and poison because just a little bit of poison corrupts the food. A little bit of disobedience corrupts our way. If we mix reasoning with obedience in us, then we corrupt our way. (Gen 18:19) Our children are going to keep the way of YAHSHUA who lived and died that way. We are to keep and preserve that way. He has chosen us to command our children to keep the way of the Sovereign. He chose Abraham for this, in order that Satan could be bound one day and he could give the land to His people. The secret of everything is Gen 18:19.

If anyone wishes to follow Messiah, he must put aside his reasoning against the word and totally trust the word of God in faith. The word of God must richly dwell in us, not poorly. (Matt 16:24) If anyone wants to be a follower of Messiah he has to put away reasoning - his flesh. He must take his cross every day and put that reasoning to death. He must crucify it otherwise he will be reasoning against God and will become a pharisee, a hypocrite. Every day we must choose between the spirit and the flesh. When you were baptised you said you were going to live every day by your will which will choose the spirit, not the flesh. That was your testimony and by that He gave you the Spirit. That is the word of God. That is what it means to be a disciple. God cannot tolerate Christianity who does not live according to this standard. And, the bible says that in the last days there will be a standard lifted up so high that many will desert that standard. He does not expect us to do it ourselves but by the Spirit and grace he provides.

Satan is a deceiver. (Rev 20:3) He is deceiving people right now in this room and they do not even know it. (Eph 2:2) He is the prince and the power of the air, deceiving the minds of those who are perishing. We are to learn obedience and teach our children obedience. In order to do this we must cast reason out so that our offspring will not be filled with it. The children of the mother described earlier are defensive and full of reasoning, always with an argument against authority. This is why parents must obey. If they do not, there is a spirit of rebellion in them that is keeping them from ruling over their child. That spirit of rebellion which controls them is manifested in what comes out of their mouth, thoughts and reason. A person must live either by God's authority or by reason. You cannot drink out of two cups at once. If you are not drinking out of the cup of salvation you are drinking out of the cup of evil spirits. Our Father hands us the cup of obedience. We have to walk in His way. Our Master submitted Himself to His Father's authority, never questioned, only obeyed. *obedience, see below

*obedience - the act or fact of obeying; the quality or state of being obedient; compliance with that which is required by authority; subjection to rightful restraint; submissive to the restraint, control, or command of authority; tractable.
Tractable suggests characteristics that make for easy guidance, leading, ordering or managing. (They are the tamest, the most abject creatures that we can possibly imagine: mild, peaceable, and tractable. They seem to have no will or power to act but as directed by their masters.) Webster

To live by reason is so complicated. Consider the birds and flowers how simply they live. The more we subject ourselves to authority, the simpler our lives become and the more our offspring will be full of grace. The flowers and birds do not have reasoning. We have to live like them - as if our flesh was crucified. Our Master says, 'If you obey Me you will never die.' (Jn 8:51) If you obey Me you will never be seperated from Me; you will always be near to Me.

Phil 3:10 We must come to know Messiah and the fellowship of His sufferings if we are going to be found worthy to share in the first resurrection. But those who still live in reasoning do not know Him. Only the obedient know Him. If you live according to reason, you have your mind on the flesh which results in death (Rom 5:8) To live in obedience is to keep your mind on the Spirit and have life and peace. Those who do that do not argue or complain. Those who know him live and walk in the light of His love; they have crucified the flesh with its reasonings of the flesh. Reason is judged by the light. We cannot say we know Him and walk in darkness. To reason is to walk in darkness. To reason with God's words means that God needs our consent for what He does. (1 Jn 1:6; 2:4)

Our reasoning comes from our thoughts. Our thoughts are the main factor in rebellion. (Isa 14:13) Satan thought; just a thought entered into his mind and he entertained (James 1:14-16, 21,22) that evil thought that he would ascend and make himself like the Most High, but instead, because he did this, he will be thrust down into the recesses of the pit (v.15). This will only happen when we are obedient as a people. (Rev 20:1,2)

Ezek 28:15 speaks about the principle of Satan's reasoning. "You were blameless until reasoning was found in you." You corrupted your wisdom when reasoning came in. (v.17) You corrupted your wisdom by reasoning for the sake of your splendor. 2 Cor 10:4-6 Rebellion is basically originated in thoughts and reason, as it was originated with Satan. Rebellious thoughts are a satanic principle. The intent of our heart will be judged one day. Our thoughts must be taken captive to the obedience of Messiah. These reasonings must be destroyed. Reasonings are to be cast aside but thoughts are to be brought into captivity to the obedience of Messiah. If reasonings are not cast down, thoughts cannot be brought to obedience. Paul did not use carnal weapons to cast out reason, with reason for instance for flesh cannot cast out flesh.

The fall of man was a result of reason. Eve responded with reasoning, not listening to God's delegated authority because she had good reasons to believe the tree was good for food, listening to Satan, the master of reason. When reasonings rise up, man's thoughts fall into a trap. Reasonings and thoughts are closely connected, joined together. Reason captures thoughts. Once the thought is taken captive by reason, we belong to Satan. (1 Tim 2:26; James 5:19,20 - his soul was going to death, as James 1:21)

The parent who trains his child to reason very skillfully for himself finds that his child is incapable of listening to the word of God; he finds his thoughts taken away by another spirit. But if you train a child in the way he should go he will not depart from it. If a parent's heart was turned toward the child's, the authority of God would have destroyed the stronghold of reason in his life, which we are all born into in Adam - the blood poisoning of reason. But a parent who trained his child in the way that he should not go will see that his child will not depart from that. He spared the rod with his child because he reasoned away hate for the child as love. (Prov 13:24) This parent reasoned with the word of God. Mark 4:24 We have to consider carefully how we use what we hear, not how it is in our brain or in our notes.

The only way to be done with reason is by confession. We have been steeped in reasoning but a miracle happens when we start confessing these things in our lives. N'su says he does not know how not to reason, he says he reeks of reasoning. Confession is his only hope. Our children will reason less than the stem and their children will reason less than them and the third generation will not reason at all. They will be the ones who will find the evil one. "These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes." (Rev 14:4) Matt 16:24,25 has no reasoning in it at all. If so, the result is death.

 

N'su - I want to confess before our Father and our Master that my life is filled with reasoning because the minute I start to reason the poison is in and what is pure becomes corrupt and I can't think straight after that. I can't listen, can't trust, can't believe and I go into darkness. The Holy Spirit can't speak to me anymore. It is an evil spirit that I can't overcome without his power and grace. I know I cannot do it without Him.

Yoneq - That is what He is waiting to hear. He wants to know we are helpless, that His power may be made manifest in our weakness.

Emiko - confessed in tears that she wants to be finished with reasoning, wants to obey our Father without reasoning. I need help. I want to know if I'm reasoning. Before I heard this I didn't know it clearly in my heart. I don't want this. I know I can do everything with joy if I don't reason. But many times I do. But I want to be finished. Especially to my husband, many many times I'm this way. I want to give authority to Natanael. I'm thankful to YAHSHUA that he helps me. I want to keep this in my heart.

AMEN.

Lunah Emunah - I'm full of reasoning in my heart. I don't want to be like this because one day I would speak out against authority. I want to love His authority. This is my problem also. I want to recognize my husband's authority, not be against our Father. I cannot do this by myself. I hate my flesh because I see where I go with it. But sometimes I go with it because of my passivity. I'm totally proud. I repent for this.

Yoceph - I saw how man has reached the epitome of foolishness in allowing the satanic principle of reasoning to lead him away from our Father. There was even a period of time in the history of man called the age of reasoning, carrying men further away from being obedient to our Father. Our Father wants to cut off that blood poisoning that has been put into us from the beginning, that Satan could think he would ascend above the Most High. But here is man, thinking in his reasoning that he could be great without God. Our Father wants to cut off in us that seed that we are steeped in that one day there can be "an age of no reasoning." Where truly we can be obedient to our Father without reasoning "why he is doing this or that." He is getting rid of that element in our being that manifests in thoughts in words in reasoning. I received hope tonight that it can be cut off in us and in our children. This can happen only if our hearts are turned toward them, not overprotecting or defending them or sparing the rod. We were taught to reason and not obey and to question authority, just the opposite of obedience. It caused us to be rebellious to established society. I'm thankful our Father is going to bring back a people who do away with reasoning. So He can finally have an age of peace. Peace will come when there will be a people who will be obedient.

Tahar - reasoning holds me back from expressing what is in my heart, confusing my thoughts, it does not bring peace to me. I'm encouraged too because I see how the schemes of Satan are being exposed and I have hope to be changed.

Yoneq - Satan is a deceiver. We were all deceived. Now we are coming out of deception.

Ha-Emeq - It seems like our Father always tested people. Everyone was so bad on the earth and then he found Noah who would obey him. He told him to build a boat and they had never even floated boats before, it had never rained before. But he was the kind of person who would do it anyway even though he did not know how it was all going to work out. Then our Father found Abraham who was a man who would leave his land and go to a place he did not even know. And he promised him a son when he could not have a son and then even told him to kill his son - and Abraham just did it. He had faith, not reasoning. He wants us to have Abraham's faith. He is going to test us to go contrary to this age we grew up in. Our Father loves Abraham and those who have faith like him. He will be careful to protect them. We are his seed if we have his faith. He is going to protect us if we are like Abraham.

Meshulem - Noah was saved because he did not reason. The others at that time reasoned salvation away, 'Maybe we won't need it, there'll be another boat, etc.

If we want to know why or how about something, the way we will find out is if we obey. If we obey, it leads us to life, setting our mind on the spirit. But if we reason we will die. Reasoning is setting the mind on the flesh.

Yoneq - In Gen 6:5, right before the flood, he said that YHWH saw that the wickedness of man was great and that every intent of his thoughts, reasonings, words were only evil continually. His reasoning was perverted. That is why God destroyed the earth. In 8:21 He made the rainbow and built an altar and offered burnt offerings. And God promised that although the reasoning in man's heart is evil from his youth, he would not destroy the earth again. Even though his reasoning and imaginations of his heart are going to be perverted. Gen 6:11 The earth was corrupt before God. It was filled with violence. Corrupt - mixed with reasoning thoughts of man. All flesh has corrupted their way. The same has happened in this age and something worse than the flood is going to come - when people are going to try to hide themselves in caves.

Naomi - I received hope because my thoughts are evil and I can confess this and be with our Master.

Yoneq - There is nothing good in the flesh, it is where Satan dwells. You have to cut it off.

Shimone - I have much tendency to reason. I know that the more we obey him he will reveal himself more. It is the only way to know him. I want to know him more.

Jonathan Elezar - If we do not recognize authority we are surely going to reason. When you reason you think you are reasoning something good.

Yoneq - It is easy to reason our way off the cross.

Hepsibah - Our of fear I reason things that my husband says. I'm held back a lot by fear, not trusting that what comes to me is good for me.

Nashon - confessed that he makes conclusions about the word that does not come from the anointing.

Ben Nabi - Our Master said My thoughts are not your thoughts and my ways are higher than your way. I understood tonight that reasoning is evil because we put ourselves up as a judge of our brothers and our Father. He inaugurated everything in order for us to be restored back to Him. We put ourself up as a judge of the things he put there to save us. We must actually realize that we are in the presence of the living God and see our brothers this way. I'm thankful that this scheme has been exposed to us and we can repent and confess it.

Miriam - Reasoning makes my life complicated and dark. There was a time I envied the flowers and birds whose life seemed so simple. Tonight I received hope because we are called to live a simple life - a life of obedience. It is not normal that man would envy a flower or bird because he is the highest creation. If I live my life as I'm created for, I'm going to be more than satisfied.

Jean Marc - If you trust in our Father you can put your foot on reasoning. I learned reasoning by day and by night. When I came here one day, I gave up my head. (He sighed with relief.)

Yochanan Bekor - (our newest brother from Scotland, fruit of the European Grateful Dead tour) shared later that in his Jewish bible in Col 3:15 it reads, "Let the shalom of Messiah be your heart's decision maker" - If the peace of Messiah is our decision maker, that cuts out any reasoning.

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